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STOBOROUGH HYDE HEATH obliteration

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AndyS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 5:49pm

Hi Keith

I always think when something like this happens, it needs to get into the Local papers at least, stating the legal infringements and as you have photos and knowledge maybe let the paper know what they ( heathland terrorists) have done wrong? in the name of conservation, raise a bit of a stink about it

As the old saying goes, if it aint broken, don't fix it!!

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will View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 6:44pm
Outrageous works; put it alongside the 'controlled' arson at Arne (see my post from last August in 'method and management'.  With 'friends' like this, what lizard / snake needs enemies ?  If it's down to the RSPB, why can't they employ an in-house herpetologist ? - they have such a big responsibility outside the world of birds (and make good publicity from being custodians of biodiversity in general, too.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 7:40pm
hi Tony I am not familiar with the knoll but have more then likley walked on its vicinity keith
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wellies101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 10:32am
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Are you being serious?

The work that was done was a bulldozer was used to clear annoying gorse (the same gorse that produces fantastic underground root systems used by native herptiles and provides essential cover)

The reason, because they got given some money to do it.

And before you come back on me Wellies... show me the pre-works survey report, you know the one written by a professional reptile specialist who surveyed the site (at the correct times of year and with sufficient effort) before they sent the diggers in.........

Welcome to the real world of conservation in action. I really should dig out some of my photos. The one of the Fire brigade doing their best to save a piece of heathland that was set light to by 'conservation volunteers' as I stood and watched after I repeatly stated over several years on this forum that Essex Wildlife trust should not light fires each spring during the spring adder emergence right next to the main hibernacula in an area surrounded by gorse and dry bracken comes to mind... Or perhaps the photographs of the 'professional worker' at the controls of a tractor trashing adder habitat, who stated in an email that he saw, 'lots of adders in the area' and when challenged by myself to stop trashing the area stated 'this isn't adder habitat'.

I had over 50 survey records for adder in that area. Guess what, not seen one there for three years.



Gemma, I only asked to try and get a clearer picture as I'm not familiar with the site, thats all. I apologise for trying to get details to take a more informed viewpoint.

I can see the work was done by plant machinery.

If the work was done to remove Gorse, I believe they should have done the area shown by hand, being more selective and less damaging to the habitat. However, I would still like to know why they chose the plant machinery route. Don't shout at me, I'm saying that choice looks very wrong in this case, but all I have seen is photos from one side of the argument.
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AGILIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 11:03am
hi all again this is the sort of thing thats happening all over and work carried out by so called text book conservationists, also I must mention the Hankley common golf club again, that has destroyed acres of sand lizard /adder lv sloworm ca habitat this last few years by extending their links into the heathland with impunity from the MOD or the pathetic English nature no one raises a eybrow to it , what you expect probably the local MP and local councillers are members of the club on ""expenses"". These are endangered and protected species , except when some one wants around of golf ,,but I bet if you took one from the common for its safety and got caught you would be taken away cuffed up to Farnham castle,awaiting deportation keithhaha

Edited by AGILIS
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 4:52pm

Why the sarcasm Wellies, as you are a ranger I assume you are a paid 'conservationist' - if you cannot see from the pictures that this sort of work is inexcusable, that the timing is wrong and that the work is in simple terms 'illegal' under the WCA due to the known presence of protected species then all it does is confirm what I have suspected for a long time regarding people like yourself.

'if the work was done to remove Gorse' ... why do you think it was done, landing pad for UFOs?

Please do get off my case, I know now who you are. Try getting up to speed on this issue instead of protecting those involved and looking for justifications (I also know you lied when you told me you had no connection with SWT on the other thread, their loyalty isn't as strong as yours lol), this isn't one case it is one of hundreds, this stuff  happens every day of the week and plenty of us here want to see the issue aired in public.

Actually personally, I want to see the perpetrators prosecuted under the WCA. Perhaps it is time to start contacting the contractors and letting them know the position these 'conservation organisations' are putting them in.

You got a copy of the pre-works survey report yet then?



Edited by GemmaJF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 8:39pm
Just declaring an interest here, and to attempt to inject some objectivity.

Wellies101 is currently undertaking a SARG reptile training programme, which he has paid to do out of his own pocket.

As part of the programme, he has given up his free time to conduct multiple reptile surveys across five core reptile sites in Surrey, and is our fourth most active surveyor.

He first contacted me offering his site as a receptor site for herps. He has taken on board all advice provided, has established his own survey at his site, and has detected the first reptiles recorded there for almost 15 years.

If this is a profile of 'the enemy' then we can all pack up and go home. This chap cares about reptiles and is learning all he can about them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 9:09pm
Hi Keith,

Have just checked the records for the area that I think you refer to on Purbeck. If I've got the right place, it's full of Sand lizard records that any desk study would have thrown up immediately.

I'd suggest you contact the Dorset Amphibian and Reptile Network (DARN). They can't replace the damage, but that could investigate and make a pain of themselves so it's not instantly repeated next time the contractors are out?
Steve Langham - Chairman    
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 9:46pm

He'll be a consultant then before you know it Steve  Shame the first time I noticed him was when he complained about a post on the thread that Surrey Wildlife Trust asked you to remove. As they then claimed they were not involved I wonder why they were so sensitive about Al posting the thread in the first place? I'm sure you are as keen on free speach on these boards as any body else. I then find out and not through you that he did indeed have contacts with SWT, hence why I consider that the complaint about Keith's posts suggesting they were a bunch of..... was motivated by loyalty. I just want the truth here nothing else.

You know this sort of works is wrong in areas with protected species - you know as well as I do they know the animals are there - you know as well as I do that it is brushed under the carpet because they get funding to do heathland restoration and that the pictures at the start of this thread is the usual method employed because it is the cheap way to do it. You also know as well as I do that Natural England sanction a great deal of these works which makes it impossible to involve local Police liason officers. Is that objective enough for you?

You may feel Steve that 'education' is the way forward, but sorry I've had enough of these site trashings in the name of 'conservation'.

Perhaps Wellies learnt a little there about 'the what and why' of this sort of site trashing.

 

And finally, you know as well as I do that they would rather we didn't talk about it on RAUK...



Edited by GemmaJF
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Alan Hyde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Hyde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

You may feel Steve that 'education' is the way forward, but sorry I've had enough of these site trashings in the name of 'conservation'.




Exactly how I feel. Education clearly is not working IMO.
Even if it was working it may be too late for many populations to recolonise.

Training to survey is also admirable, but then why train someone relatively new and reject all offers of help and advice from many that have been in the field for decades?
We all know that this sort of knowledge does not come over night, we become familiar with our sites and the animals observed there. An area that is rich in reptiles at one time in the year may be completely herpless at other times . If the surveyor is relatively new he or she may assume that that particular spot has little active life. I know many adders that can be found at completely opposite ends of the heath in different seasons.

O-> O+>
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