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PROTECTED SPECIES IS A EFFING JOKE!!

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JamesM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JamesM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 11:59am
What really annoys me, is the fact that if you simply touch a specimen of a 'protected species' without a license, or are unsupervised by license holders, you're facing prosecution, huge fines and possibly even jail time, if you are caught........ but it seems as if it's acceptable to destroy their habitat.

It seems like the priorities are wrong here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for minimal disturbance, but this takes the piss.

A friend of mine said to me yesterday, "If they can get away with building on somewhere, with little objection, they will." Never a truer word spoken.


Edited by JamesM - 23 Jun 2012 at 12:00pm
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Iowarth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 12:44pm

What we need is an eccentric multi-millionairre to set up a Wildlife Protection Trust with oodles of money and no function other than a) to prosecute those who flout the law (using both UK and EU legislation) - primary targets being government and governmental organisations and b) to loudly publicise all such acts

Any of you won the Euromillions lately? Smile

Chris

Chris Davis, Site Administrator

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Iowarth Iowarth wrote:

What we need is an eccentric multi-millionairre to set up a Wildlife Protection Trust with oodles of money and no function other than a) to prosecute those who flout the law (using both UK and EU legislation) - primary targets being government and governmental organisations and b) to loudly publicise all such acts

Any of you won the Euromillions lately? Smile

Chris


Nope, but if someone puts up the money, I can do the eccentric bit LOL
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AGILIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 2:50pm
Chris I am buying a lotto ticket this sarvo keith
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 4:46pm

I thought that was a given Gemma - most people would say most RAUKers are eccentric.

I always maintained that I was designed to be an eccentric millionairre - but I only got half way there! Wacko

(got mine too Keith!)

Chris

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sussexecology View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2012 at 9:28pm

Oh boy, I wish i was a millionnaire.

Dream on Smile

Chris and Keith - getting mine now!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Iowarth Iowarth wrote:

Since I work with (not for) ARC I feel bound to make some comment addressing various comments above:-

Firstly, the mention of political issues:- yes, ARC do have to be politically aware in their actions. They, of neccessity, work closely with NE (and of course our other national conservation agencies) and have to steer a tricky path between conservation requirements and preserving essential relationships.

The mention above of "faceless people behind quangos masquerading as trust bodies" is, in the context of ARC, in all honesty both inaccurate and insulting. They certainly aren't faceless - most of them (staff and trustees) are identified on the website and are indeed known to many people on this forum. They are not a Quango, nor anything like one. And their staff are genuine herp lovers, with immense knowledge and who put an enormous amount of time and effort into conservation.

Although the majority of ARC's funding comes from from other trusts/charities, another source is money from NE etc. So, it could be argued that they are, like quangos, paid by the government (i.e. us!). In practice, however, this is a small proportion. The question is, however, if they did set themselves against NE rather than trying to work with them and their political masters, what other organisation has the knowledge and abilities to actually lead the SAPs (or whatever the current version is called). And that's not about "political agendas" or "not rocking the boat" - it is about that  knowledge and ability - the competence for the task.  

ARC put a huge amount of work into herp conservation with minimal (and not particularly well paid) staff many of whom work hours which would be more appropriate to Victoriana. It's not that long ago that I met a staff member regarding the captive breeding programme at 0200 after a day on which he had been working since 0600 - and that is not that unusual.

What they do is well documented on their website.

Lastly, since it is almost unheard of for the police to take any form of legal action against those who do contravene the laws protecting herps, how on earth do you expect a small charity with minimum funds to pursue such action with the huge costs it would involve? The RSPCA may have that sort of money and, indeed, just once (to my knowledge) prosecuted someone for killing an adder, but ARC don't! And, quite simply, it is the responsibility of law enforcement agencies to enforce the law.

Quite honestly, when I look at the huge achievements of ARC over the years (and yes, we all know they are all too little compared to what is needed) and the immeasurable amount of work that goes into it, unthinking comments like these make my blood boil.

If you want them to do more, then support them so that they can have the capability. But I doubt there is much hope of that - despite requests on this site's home page  virtually since its inception, the only two individuals I am aware of who have sunk money into this website are myself and Gemma - are herpers not prepared to put their money where their mouth is?

And, incidentally, ARC and ARG both do contribute financially to supporting this website (but have NO editorial control) - because they value it and your contributions - and both will welcome constructive criticism of what they do and practical suggestions of how they might do more.

END OF RANT

Chris

Hi all,
 
Chris,
 
in your rant 3rd para above, you say that ARC is not like a quango and then in your 4th para, you go on to point out that; hey; it is abit alike a quango, so perhaps my comments are not inaccurate after all.
 
As for contributions; in the words of the late and immensely great (or in saying this, maybe it confirms the accusation of music snob!) John Lennon, "you ask for me a contreeabution... we're all doing what we can man."
 
As I recall I did give what I could, and I don't recall ever seeing another request for funding from you Chris, so if you would like funding, let us know mate, in plain terms without the digs and I'm sure we'll all do what we can again.
 
Thanks for providing the stage for comments, but if we are all to shut up and not comment, what would be the point of a forum?
 
Cheers
 
Rob - end of rant
 
 
 
 
RobV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 11:51am

Hi Rob

Dealing with your last point first - I sure didn't ask you to shut up - not even by implication! In fact, the only time anyone has suffered that on this forum is when they have descended to personal abuse.

And, no, a point of interpretation - I stated that "So, it could be argued that they are, like quangos, paid by the government (i.e. us!)" That statement does not either a) say that they are a bit like quangos nor b) that the argument referred to has any validity - it doesn't! 

They are constrained by the relationship to not "rocking the boat" BUT that does not mean that words are not said in private - far from it in fact. And John Lennon got his words dead right - so long as they are taken literally.

Regarding funding assistance with the forum, this figured prominently on the front page of the website since as long as I can remember. It is still there, in the footer, albeit in small print now (for the last two years) since the ARC/ARG contribution has reduced the costs by 50%. At the risk of having another dig (and certainly not at you!) I am bound to point out that you are the only person who asked this entirely reasonable question!

Keep using the stage for comment and debate Rob, that is part of what the forum is for.

Chris

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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 1:09pm
Chris,
 
I think I may have sussed why the 'contributions' bit gets missed. When I come to rauk, my search engine jumps straight to forum so I never see the 'home page'!
 
Where do we send contributions - you can pm me on that if its a personal address.
 
As for the earlier comments from various about giving of time etc. I'm not after medals, in fact I do what I do for the love of reptiles and amphibians.
 
In the production of my book I was down a considerable sum (well, it was for me anyway) of money, of which I'd spent 15 years of my life in study to try to communicate an awareness to others.
 
I am deeply indebted to those RAUK loyalists that put their hands in their pockets and tried to help me out by buying the thing - untold thanks.
 
But, in fairness to all, no we don't know who the RAUK members are who are also members of ARC. In fact the member of ARC that I do know, used to work at NE, or EN or whatever heading they like to use nowadays and was a person that I appealed to for help to stop a mass destruction of adders at Waltham Abbey.
 
As we have all had experience with being ignored, small wonder forum poster's patience is a little thin.
 
I for one didn't intend that the hardworking field staff in organisations should be the target of comments regarding lack of action, far from it, my comments are aimed at top levels - they know who they are.
 
Oh, and by the way, well done to Ian on the Guardian bit- exceelent mate, I'll try to put something together and contact him.
 
Rob
RobV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MancD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 6:50pm
If this damage/destruction occurred within the SSSI boundary, then I suggest that (Keith) you report it to your local Natural England office so they can check if consent for these works was issued. If not, then NE can take it on as an enforcement case for damage to the protected site.

If it falls outside the SSSI boundary, but affects sand lizards or their habitats then the police are the enforcement body, so you should give them a call. 

Seems that there are increasing numbers of reports of habitat damage/destruction on the forum, and lots of comments about these sites but it's often not clear if they have been reported or not. Not much point in joining in group exasperation because you think no-one will do anything, at the very least it should be reported.
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