the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > General > What is it?
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Newt ID, Oban, Scotland
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Newt ID, Oban, Scotland

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
LyndsaySwinton View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LyndsaySwinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Newt ID, Oban, Scotland
    Posted: 22 Sep 2004 at 5:52pm

Please can you help me identify this newt.  The picture was taken in August, and the 4 newts turned up one rainy day in the dogs waterbowl, outside.  I live in Oban, on the coast of NW Scotland.

It doesn't match with either the smooth or palmate newt decsriptions I've read, so was hoping you can help!

Regards

Lyndsay

PS I released them into the pond in our garden, fed by a hill stream, which is probably acidic water.  I have seen similar newts hanging out in the pond.

PPS I couldn't upload the image, so have sent picture by email.

Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2004 at 10:06pm

Newt pictures:

Back to Top
evilmike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evilmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2004 at 12:44am
looks like Triturus helveticus Palmate newts to me although cant see too clearly, look rather skinny too, the largest one in the second pic is a female i believe cant see the others to tell, few different ages there too judging by size range.
Mike Lister BSc hons Ecology & Env management
Back to Top
Matt Harris View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2004 at 8:52am
Very difficult to tell if it's female smooth or palmate - the features we normally use to tell them apart aren't visible on that pic.
Local Authority Ecologist
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2004 at 11:02am

Hi Lyndsay, my feeling was Palmate newts though I'm not positive, this is also supported by your suggestion that the pond may be acidic, as palmate newts are more tolerant of acidic water that smooth.

If you can take a close look at the throats on the next one you see it's the best clue I know to identification. Palmates tend to have pinky translucent throats with few or no spots, smooth newts have whiter throats with obvious spots. It might take looking at a few of them to be sure and sometimes both species occur together.

The males will not be in full breeding dress at this time of year, so the tail filament and low dorsal crest may well be abscent.

Back to Top
evilmike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evilmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2004 at 11:43am

males would also have webbed feet, the female hasnt got this to allow for the wrapping of the eggs into the vegetation. its just smooths that poccess a low crest well and GCNs not palmates, lucky enough to have 100s of palmates in my garden, found a juvenile yesterday hiding in the rockery, was about 2cm long so cute :)

although have so many they have demolished my frog tadpoles for the 2nd time in a 2yrs, havent seen any tadpoles and not froglets this yr in last 6months :( think its time for some segregation. any1 else suffered from anything similar?

Mike Lister BSc hons Ecology & Env management
Back to Top
LyndsaySwinton View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LyndsaySwinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2004 at 10:02am

Thanks for all the replies!

My concern at the moment is that there are plans to build several "infill" houses in green spaces around my house.  I am concerned that the newts (and many other visitors to my garden) will be adversely impacted by the building and subsequent houses due to drainage of the boggier areas, concrete, pet cats etc.

What are your views on the potential impact, and are there any preventive measures that I could take to maintain habitat for the newts?  The developer is at the outline planning stage with the council, so it may be possible to stipulate some environmental conditions......?

Regards

Lyndsay

Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2004 at 11:11am

Hi Lyndsay,

The widespread species of newt, smooth and palmate, do not have any legislative protection regarding their habitat. The developer has no legal obligation to put any form of mitigation in place.

You can use your own garden to compensate for the loss of habitat to some degree by constructing features such as log piles to give the local newt population winter refuge.

 

Back to Top
Matt Harris View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2004 at 1:24pm
Lyndsay,

When you say 'at the outline planning stage', do you know if the OPA has been determined yet?

Either way, smooth/palmate newts are afforded very little protection under the WCA1981, so their presence alone wouldn't be a material consideration in the determining of this application. On their own, you wouldn't be able to get planning conditions to protect the newts attached either. The developer could appeal that these conditions are unreasonable.

You could fall on the mercy of the developer and ask them to remove and exclude the newts, but they would be under no obligation. Alternatively, you could get a local wildlife group/trust to do the work.

It might be worth checking out the biodiversity policies of your Local Authority. The site might qualify under some wildlife site criteria which could carry some weight. Here in South Wales, for example, sites supporting four or more species of amphibian, good populations of three or more species of amphibian or exceptional populations of any single species of amphibian, can be designated as Sites of Interest for Nature Conservation. These are material considerations in planning decisions. There might be other policies in your Local Biodiversity Action Plan which would help, but again these are policies not law. You might have more joy if there is other wildlife interest as well as the newts.

Whatever you choose to do, the council and developers will probably think you are just a NIMBY; i.e you donĘt like the idea of these new houses, so you are trying to use the nature conservation value of the site to stop it going ahead.
Local Authority Ecologist
Back to Top
LyndsaySwinton View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LyndsaySwinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2004 at 3:50pm

Thanks for your advice.  I will check out the local area plan.  I am resigned to the fact that the development will probably go ahead, but want to do as much as possible to support the local wildlife.

We've got a kestrel that visits daily, eating birds who use the bird table, buzzards, a barn owl, 2 tawny owls, bats, bull finches, woodpeckers, tree creepers to name a few.... and chantarelle mushrooms :>)

Lyndsay

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.