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NE Publish Reptile Mitigation Guidelines

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Matt Smith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2011 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by herpetologic2 herpetologic2 wrote:

1. the guidelines I would suggest still stand as a draft they are not going to be changed a great deal they will be clarified to avoid the confusion around them


Personally I think at least some parts of it need substantial alteration, particularly with respect to the number of refugia.

Originally posted by herpetologic2 herpetologic2 wrote:

Proper survey work prior, during and after are very much key to this so please consultants aim to do better than the standard 7 days of survey with 5 to 10 acos per ha etc


And therein lies one of the problem, the HGBI Guidelines are the current "standard methodology". If I aim to "do better" with a survey quote of say, 12 days, someone else is just going to quote the "standard 7 visit survey" and get the business, not me.

That is why we need the NE guidelines to be sorted, so that we all have the "minimum standards for survey" set out on paper. If you can get any client pay for more, good luck to you.



Edited by Matt Smith - 13 Nov 2011 at 10:27pm
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2011 at 2:55pm
This is exactly the point Matt, I once quoted 5 visits for a GCN survey to be informed by the client that I only needed to do 4. Once these things are in print the bad work to the minimum the good are forced to follow suit to stay in business. The fact they are completely incompetent won't matter at all, their quote will be cheaper and they will get the work. What the client had overlooked in that particular case was it was physically impossible to carryout the required survey effort in 4 nights at the site. We didn't get the job and I remember well it going very badly later down the line. The fact it is a 'minimum' is overlooked, once in print it becomes the 'standard'.

Unfortunately I'm rather of the opinion that no guidelines will address the real issue which is simply that far to many people with very little clue of what they are actually doing carryout reptile surveys and far too many developers will simply take the cheapest quote and muddle through. Many pay the price later down the line with over run and thousands of pounds wasted. I said long ago there was room for an association of reptile workers. I still think that is the case. Far too often the work simply goes to the wrong people, in the past year I've practically given up trying to stay in business, knowing full well the work is there and being done by entirely incompetent people in many cases who under quote to get the contract and end up costing their clients thousands due to simple incompetence.


Edited by GemmaJF - 14 Nov 2011 at 2:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 8:18am
We (KRAG) were attempting to develop reptile HSI criteria. When NE jumped the gun we were fairly dismayed and I've been considering whether it is worthwhile continuing to develop the methodology. Now the guidelines have been withdrawn there is an opportunity for me to better voice my concerns. I would be interested to know what others think about this particular aspect of the guidelines and whether the methodology should be further developed and is worth publishing (in the context of guidelines).

I'm currently soliciting feedback from users of the gcn HSI guidelines to enable an update of that methodology, so the reptile HSI is not an immediate priority for me. However, useful to gauge the forum's thoughts on the matter. If folks want to comment on the gcn document please email me directly.

Edited by calumma - 15 Nov 2011 at 8:20am
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 11:02am
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

I once quoted 5 visits for a GCN survey to be informed by the client that I only needed to do 4.....What the client had overlooked in that particular case was it was physically impossible to carryout the required survey effort in 4 nights at the site. We didn't get the job and I remember well it going very badly later down the line. 

Just out of interest what made an impossible 4 visit survey, so achievable in 5 visits and what went so badly wrong down the line?

I'm intrigued
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2012 at 5:46pm

Has anyone tried these new guidelines yet for surveys this year?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2012 at 1:34am
Originally posted by sussexecology sussexecology wrote:


Has anyone tried these new guidelines yet for surveys this year?


No, because they were withdrawn pending review.

Edited by Matt Smith - 06 Apr 2012 at 1:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2012 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Matt Smith Matt Smith wrote:

Originally posted by sussexecology sussexecology wrote:


Has anyone tried these new guidelines yet for surveys this year?


No, because they were withdrawn pending review.


Yes thank you for that, I realise that.

These are still in draft form and NE advised that they are the current guidelines to use.

Was only asking !!!!

Will ask our reptile ecologist instead then.
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