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Hybrid Palmate/Smooth |
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sussexecology 
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Joined: 30 Sep 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 411 |
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 Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 9:07pm |
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Brett Can you please PM us, as I have managed to get copies of the photos that i was referring to. I can't physically scan these in as we don't have a scanner here sadly but am willing to send these to you if you want to look at them. I am holding onto these for a week, so please PM us before this time next week (Monday) - otherwise i will have to return them to the owners sadly, as they want the photos back. Regards SE Reptile Ecologist |
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Noodles
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Joined: 05 Dec 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 9:15am |
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Take a photo of the photo and post it.
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B Lewis
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Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Kent Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 4:46pm |
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Sorry folks - been away from the forum for a while as I've been busy finishing my thesis, carrying out post-doc work and much more..
Anyway, back to it. Hetty - please drop me an email via the address left in your PM inbox. Noodles - I think this occurs more frequently than we know. I think quite often these go unidentified but by taking a closer look , as you state, we might get a few more records in. The more we know the better we can understand these little hybrids of nature. :-)
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Brett Lewis Consultant Ecologist | Wildlife Photographer | DICE, University of Kent | Kent Reptile & Amphibian Group |
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Noodles
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Posted: 25 Oct 2012 at 10:57am |
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Cheers Brett and thanks for responding.
A really great little thread this. I hope you ultimately get a first on yer thesis  |
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B Lewis
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Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Kent Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 9:16am |
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Thank you..!
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Brett Lewis Consultant Ecologist | Wildlife Photographer | DICE, University of Kent | Kent Reptile & Amphibian Group |
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Jeroen
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 1:06pm |
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A case of what looks like a hybrid has now been found in Belgium too, but pictures are not mine to place online. Thinking of a small paper about this 1 find too, but perhaps collaboration might be an idea? Can send them, if you like, if you contact me at jeroenspeybroeck@hotmail.com
Question - how do you tell them apart with certainty from alien L. v. meridionalis or graecus?
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Caleb
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Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 660 |
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Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 9:30am |
Richard Griffiths' specimen was karyotyped, and found to be a cross between a male palmate and female smooth. I don't think alien L. v. meridionalis or graecus are particularly likely- they've never been common in the pet trade, and as far as I know they've never been found in the wild in the UK (though I understand graecus has been found in Austria). There are features on the photos above that are found in palmates but not in any of the smooth subspecies- the wiggly lines on the back of the head, and the red line down the middle of the tail, for example.
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Jeroen
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 11:18am |
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Thank you, Caleb. I meant it as a genuine question and not intended to doubt that the portrayed animals are indeed hybrids. It's just that I wondered about it with our Belgian specimen.
What do you think?
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Caleb
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Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 10:37am |
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The only feature on the Belgian one that doesn't appear in any smooth newt subspecies seems to be the red centre line on the tail (though it's very faint). The head really looks exactly like a smooth newt's head, unlike the other photos above.
I don't think it's meridionalis, though- these have no tail filament, and have very little webbing on the feet. I think the only subspecies with dorsolateral folds, a smooth-edged crest, and a tail filament are graecus and kosswigi. All the pictures I've seen of these have strong markings on their crest and body, not plain like the Belgian specimen. I would guess that a palmate/smooth hybrid is the most likely explanation. I suppose a smooth/montandoni hybrid is yet another possibility, if these have escaped from captivity...
Edited by Caleb - 15 Nov 2012 at 10:38am |
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Jeroen
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 11:33am |
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Thanks for that, Caleb!
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Jeroen wrote: