the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > Conservation > Method & Management
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed -
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

"Tins"

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
Mervyn View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mervyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2003 at 9:24am
Many thanks Nick
Mervyn J. COTTENDEN, CPA
Back to Top
spaniel View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spaniel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2004 at 8:02pm

Sorry to reserect this one!

So from reading the posts corrugated tin sheets are good for adders but if tins are freshly put down it might take time for undergrowth to degrade to certain level for adders to use.

Would it be acceptable to level the undergrowth in winter and place tin ready for the coming spring?

Please correct me If I totally of the mark with this

with thanks in advance

Ian

 

Back to Top
calumma View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2004 at 8:24pm
In choice tests between tin and felt, tins appear to be used more frequently by adder. However, there would appear to be a great deal of variability between sites in lying out beaviour. On some sites, adder seem to prefer cover objects whilst on others adder are more frequently observed lying out - even when cover objects are available. A site on the North Kent coast is interesting in that it supports a large adder population and animals can frequently be seen both lying out and using cover objects.

With regards to the time it takes for animals to start using cover objects, the issues are more subtle than the state of the undergrowth. I have some ideas about this but little data to back them up (at the moment). I'm hoping to run some experiments next year that investigate time to use refugia in much more detail. However, on sites where refugia have previously been set, individual adder *know* where the refugia are within their home ranges. On 'new' sites they have no reason to expect any refugia to be present. Adder may be drawn to cover objects by their thermal properties, but ultimately they discover new refugia by chance. I do recommend that you set refugia early in the season. This maximises the likelihood that adder will discover and use the cover object.

On sites that I monitor I expect to find adder under refugia early in the season. However, I think that even on these sites it is important to place a greater reliance on visual surveys at this time of the year. For sites with no history of refugia use, visual surveys are even more important.

Note that the deployment of refugia on new sites will still allow you to quickly determine the presence of lizards and slow-worms.

Lee

Edited by calumma
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



Email
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2004 at 8:45pm

Ian,

I wouldn't level the undergrowth, you need to look for areas with the right vegetation structure in the first place to favour placing the refugia. A lot will depend on the site and the habitat. For instance consider a brambles bush in a meadow, you would go south side of the bush where the sward wasn't too low and not too high and the cover board won't be totally shaded. The vegetation will form a bed under the board. I leave them about a fortnight to settle but this will depend on the length of your project and intensity of survey, the longer they are down the more likely they are to produce records. That is the way you need to think about it. If you need to level the undergrowth than frankly your placing the refugia in the wrong place. You have to place boards where you think reptiles will be, they are never just evenly distributed over a site and the key will be the vegetation structure and the amount of sunlight received.

 

Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2004 at 9:12pm
Ian, I posted my last reply at the same time as Lee posted. I actually edited out a desciption of adder lying out within a few feet of tins earlier in the year, not one was using the refugia on the 3-4 visits I made. I did however pick up my first adder at the site recently, most refugia have now been removed but a couple were left on site and sure enough it produced an adult adder.. 11 months after the tins were place. Though at first glance one might consider that adder occur at a lower density at a site so therefore by chance are less likely to intercept and use refugia, observations such as counting 6 adults in a small area all targetted correctly with tin and none of them using them make me wonder if there is a lot more to it all.
Back to Top
spaniel View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spaniel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2004 at 11:27pm

thanks for the info

          It sounds very hit and miss at first and guess lady luck will have to be on myside!

It seems that visual recording is a must even if it's to say that it's an active area.

I think the hardest thing for me to get my head round is even though it is calculated and equated it can only be as good as the herps that comply with our methods!

From the studying I have been doing and from talks with the various groups and agencies I sort of have an idea as what to expect, but if I have learnt one thing it is always expect the unexpected.

But all is not lost I am more determinded that ever.

Back to Top
timbadger View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timbadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2005 at 6:05am

In relation to cutting corrugated sheets into tins, yes you get through many many blades. In my experience often big packs of the cheaper blades (screwfix does cheap packs of 10) work nearly as well as the expensive ones, and give you a nice excuse to stop and have a quick sit down. The work position (invariably bent over) is nasty and the vibration on the arms ts quite harsh.

Having said all this it really is the cheapest and quickest way of getting tin cut.

I know i'm new hear but with a half decent De-walt large angle grinder ive cut over two thousand tins this year alone, and have been doing it for a number of years (not always in those numbers)

The one thing i would stress though is that the guage of the tin you get makes the world of difference to the time to cut it!

Also on the thinner stuff which was easier to cuti invariably gets a ridge of waste at the back of the cut, it takes time but please turn the tin over and just run the blade down it, it peels of easily but does really cut very badly indeed (or cuts well depending on your point of view) even through welding gloves if you are unlucky....i have scars..

 

hope that helps..

Back to Top
Suzi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2005 at 4:21am

In East Devon I have never seen a viv. lizard under a tin and only very occasionally on top. Adders underneath and occasionally on top or very close by. Grass snakes ditto adders. What most people here will agree with I'm sure is that looking at a range of tins on a slope which seemingly are all placed to be as attractive to reptiles as each other will produce different results. I note that a certain tin will never have adders and another is the only one to attract grass snakes each year whilst some have all three under consistently. There are other factors at work - what are they?!

Incidentally I scrounged 3 piece of corrugated tin this year and wanted to cut them in half for use and found that it wasn't too difficult to punch a line of holes with a cold chisel across the tin and then stand on it and fold the tin up and down until it broke. Any sharp bits on the edges I hammered flat. I realise a lot of you guys need something better for mass tin cutting but this was an OK method for just a few.

Suz
Back to Top
herpetologic2 View Drop Down
Forum Coordinator
Forum Coordinator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2005 at 11:23am

 

Hi Suzi

Strange I regularly use tins to capture viviparous lizards - they are often found underneath tins - in the early morning in the middle and late summer you will find lizards under tins - from 08.30 to 11.30am - then the weather becomes much warmer and this is when you can catch lizards off other features - anthills, tussocks and in the long grass.

Black roofing felt tiles are also excellent for finding lizards - this year a survey found up to 10 -12 lizards under a single 50cm x 50cm black roofing felt tile! - Lizards also tend to shelter under these artificial refugia during the evening and even through the winter months.

Most of my translocation sites have produced lizards from under tins - but normally during cloudy warm days or after rain -

I have to resort to noosing from time to time as the lizards bask on objects such as fence posts and rubbish.

 

 

Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 3.781 seconds.