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Grass Snake Egg Incubator???

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Caleb View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Oct 2014 at 9:24am
I have a worm culture covered with black denim (not a fashion statement, just the thickest piece of rag that was to hand!), and it's always damp underneath. 

I couldn't say if it's due to keeping moisture in, or letting rain through, but we don't have a great deal of rain up here.
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Suzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 12:01am
Rob do you mean black hessian instead of black plastic? To allow rain in to keep it humid? I do water any covered heaps to try and achieve that, but am willing to try. Thing is plastic keeps the damp in nicely.
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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 11:26pm
It would be great if you do manage to set up a live feed with time lapse etc!

Grassie eye-ball cam. What if you cover the compost with that black hessian stuff Suze, does that work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 12:11pm
I drive my husband mad with the compost heaps. First I'm saying not to dig/turn them as there are hibernating reptiles and then I'm saying there are breeding inmates and then young. In truth the tin sided heap I consider 'my' dedicated wildlife one (also newts frogs and toads go in the heaps)and am reluctant to disturb it much, but we need to get out the finished compost and chuck in more greenery and cardboard to make it a working heap again.
Next year I am going to try something else as well. I will make a heap on the ground in the long grass near the heaps and frequently add to it -lawn mowings, cardboard, garden greenery - and keep covered with black plastic. I'm sure grassies will go in it and maybe breed.
Suz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caleb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 11:54am
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

 we could find a really reliable control system

The STC1000 is worth looking at- these are cheap (less than £15), accurate to 0.1C, have a remote waterproof temperature probe, and can switch cooling as well as heating.

I use one of these to control temperature in an aquarium, it's been working well for a year now. 

Lots of home brewers use these too, someone's even made their own custom firmware for it to gradually change temperature over a period of days...
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:58am
Cheers Rob, I think we must have snakes visit the heap because for several years we've had the tiny bootlace juveniles in the garden. I can't identify where the eggs are laid though as I've never found them in the heap when turning it in the spring. But with the pond I'm fairly sure they will at least visit the garden again. There has been a reduction locally in livestock farming too, so less muck heaps about than there were 10 years ago. Not good for the snakes but as I seem to be one of only a few in the village with active compost heaps, perhaps lucky for this project.

My plan was to put in the box then cover with the turned heap adding horse poop. This might do the trick of producing the right smell to get the females interested in the heap and then finding the box. (the box entrance being at the front and the other 3 sides reasonably sealed with corrugated tins)

I want to do it all live on the web, this is the main reason for doing it outside, like a bird nesting box but for grassies instead. I think there is value in getting herps out to the public and get some interest via these kind of web cams as they haven't had as much exposure compared to mammals and birds.

So there would be a cam in the box, and one outside, so we might see the frantic females inspecting the area and also the young emerge from the eggs and then the box! As there will be a long period of inactivity, getting public involvement monitoring the cams and alerting that the first hatchlings have appeared seems a good activity.

If it were an overwhelming success and we could find a really reliable control system (my engineering background might help there) the outdoor snake egg incubator might be something other people could try too to help with grassy conservation. I've really found it a bit of a struggle in the UK to get really good heat producing compost. Only really worked when we had a rabbit and the mix of its poo with the wood shaving seemed to do the trick. The reality of gardening means it's hard to get the right mix of greens and browns to really get the thing cooking, particularly when we get rubbish summers and if hoping to get grassies using it, regular turning and mixing of the compost isn't an option.












Edited by GemmaJF - 27 Oct 2014 at 10:01am
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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2014 at 7:40pm
Hi Gemma,

Chris is absolutely right about the heating elements cooking eggs etc.

I have tried vermiculite and sphagnum moss, vermiculite holds the moisture better but difficult to get the moisture levels correct in the first place. I reckon the best bet would be a water proof heating element inserted into the compost heap very close to the box. 

You wouldn't have to worry about the Grass Snake not laying in the box, because if its warm enough and damp enough they will be drawn to the target anyway.

As you know I had a 24 x 24 x 18 'aquarium' that I practically filled with substrate and joined it by tube to the quarters where I was keeping the Grassie. It had two heat mats but not in the tank as I found this dried the substrate too much in the first try. They are frantic come the time of laying, round and round the tank, but as soon as they 'found' the entrance to the substrate tank that was it - eggs laid. 

Your problem is going to be coercing the snakes in the direction of the heap isn't it?

And if it's just for filming, then why not undertake the process artificially? My incubations were from 25 deg day, 22 deg at night, but you have to do some research at your laying position first to find out how long the heat mats have to be switched off and on in order to achieve that. Thermostats are crap... and a fire hazard to boot. So it has to be a timer operating at the wall (fused spur).

The main difficulty I see with the proposal is control. 

Rob
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 10:47am
It helps a great deal Chris. Thumbs Up 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iowarth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 10:09am
Hi again Gemma,

For most temperate reptiles incubation temperatures between 23 and 28 (generally fluctuating in that range) are about right. I have a sneaking suspicion that using compost reduces the reliance on heat from the sun so much of that fluctuation would disappear with grass snakes in which case a more steady temperature within, but towards the top end of that range would be about right. This is, of course, a very long-winded way of saying "Yes"!

It is difficult to give a number for humidity (I am very unscientific here - I have a sophisticated measuring tool called my finger with a scale of "too dry" to "too wet" with "that feels about right" in the middle! It's worked for some 60 years so I find it adequate! In terms of numbers I would say that you would want an absolute minimum of 70% and a maximum of 90%. In the latter case the feel is "distinctly damp but not wet" if you can imagine such a thing!

Your recollection the red-ears is quite correct, but it is important to remember that the requirements are significantly different especially terms of humidity where the hard-shelled eggs of most terrapins and tortoises are less reliant on osmosis for water and can thus cope with lower (or even higher!) humidity levels. These I incubate in the same temperature regime as all other species but am not fussy about humidity - so long as its not dry or wet it seems to work fine!

Again, I hope this helps.

Chris
Chris Davis, Site Administrator

Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED)
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 9:45am
More questions Chris, what sort of level of humidity should I aim for? I found one reference that gave the ideal temp at 26-27 degrees, does this sound about right?

Edited by GemmaJF - 19 Oct 2014 at 9:47am
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