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North Wales Aesculapians

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Noodles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 12:49pm
Can anyone actually think of any other examples of EPS control, proposed or otherwise, occurring outside the species 'natural range'? It's an interesting line of inquiry i'd say.
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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 1:22pm
There has been discussion of the eradication of non-native tortoises in Sardinia - see for instance here
Wolfgang Wüster

School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor

http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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Noodles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 1:32pm
Thanks. It is interesting to note that the Large Blue butterfly has full European protection in the UK despite being reintroduced from continental stocks in the 1980's. Surely after its extinction in the 70's the UK failed to strictly fall within its natural range. So why the protection now? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 2:49pm
It would appear to me the same argument could apply to the Pool Frog introduction. It can't be argued the individual animals are 'native'. When the last alleged native died, the UK no longer formed part of the natural home range.

It always seems to me that regardless of any form of legislation it all comes down to individual or organisations agenda.

I just find this whole story very sad indeed. The snakes have been there for over 30 years with no apparent harm. The only thing I can see this achieving is making individuals far less likely to report alien herp species colonies in the future. Which could have serious consequence. A similar case was discussed regarding non-native lizards on the forum a few years back. NE at the time stated no study of impact was to be made. Surely it is nothing more than common sense to include impact as a factor before deciding to eradicate a species just because it is there...
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Wolfgang Wuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfgang Wuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 3:09pm
Reintroducing species that have gone extinct makes sense in terms of preserving ecosystem function. Some argue that we should even introduce ecological equivalents of entirely extinct species from different continents to restore ecosystem function if required. Google "Pleistocene Rewilding" for some high-end examples.

As far as wall lizards, Aesculapians etc. are concerned, the decision making process can be summarised as:

1.
The species is
native = good. End.
introduced = bad. Go to 2.

2.
Control is:
Cheap = let's do it!
Expensive = Forget it.

The meeting did mention one case of a wall lizard population having been removed soon after initial establishment without any prior research as a good example of how introduced species populations should be tackled.
Wolfgang Wüster

School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor

http://pages.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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Caleb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caleb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Noodles Noodles wrote:

the Large Blue butterfly has full European protection in the UK despite being reintroduced from continental stocks in the 1980's. Surely after its extinction in the 70's the UK failed to strictly fall within its natural range. So why the protection now? 

The Large Blue was protected under the Conservation of Wild Creatures and Wild Plants Act 1975, before it became extinct in 1979. 

That Act was repealed when the Wildlife & Countryside Act was enacted in 1981, and all the species protected were given protection under the newer Act, including the Large Blue.

The 'natural range' part of the 1994 Regulations is specified by including a list of species:
and so they'll still have full protection even if they become extinct.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JaySteel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 6:11pm
So does this mean that the Green & Wall Lizards at Boscombe are at risk from being targeted? I do hope not.

Why are these morons allowed to decide which introduced species can stay and which must go?
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Noodles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 11:59pm
The large blue was reintroduced in the mid eighties....and it is now protected under EU law despite no longer being endemic to the UK; which is in essence the point i was trying to make.
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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2013 at 10:12am

It seems incredible to me that when 35 million pheasants are released in the Uk EVERY YEAR and 9 million cats can roam where they like to kill what they like EVERY YEAR, and presumably, even if EVERY pheasant only killed and ate one snake in its life time (highly likely), and given that cats kill 10 million reptiles EVERY YEAR in this country,

that a percieved threat from 20 or so Aesculapians would affect reptile populations in the UK!!!

Like Gemma, I want to know who this "they" are? I want their contact details so that we can name and shame.

I don't mind if "they" tackle any percieved "problem" with alien species, provided that they deal with ALL alien species, icluding those that are causing most damage to reptile populations.

R

RobV
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Caleb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caleb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2013 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Noodles Noodles wrote:

The large blue was reintroduced in the mid eighties....and it is now protected under EU law despite no longer being endemic to the UK; which is in essence the point i was trying to make.

I was really trying to suggest that the current legal position of the large blue came from continuation of existing laws rather than from anyone making a decision that it should be considered as native despite having become extinct.

The pool frog, however, was only given protection after it had become extinct...
 
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