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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2012 at 7:31pm
Well there is only one answer really and that is pre-management survey for reptiles and amphibians. Everyone knows that reptiles and GCN occur in the area, so it is a simple thing to arrange areas to be surveyed before any form of management takes place.

I'm sure Rob would have been more than willing to inform that this level of management was totally unsuitable in regard to reptile status at Rushey Plain.

If an experienced surveyor doesn't look for herps in specific places where management is planned, hiding behind a lack of recent records is not really any excuse in my mind.

Lets hope the message gets across and please point them to this thread. For further advice if required.


Edited by GemmaJF - 20 May 2012 at 7:32pm
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sussexecology View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2012 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Well there is only one answer really and that is pre-management survey for reptiles and amphibians. Everyone knows that reptiles and GCN occur in the area, so it is a simple thing to arrange areas to be surveyed before any form of management takes place.

I'm sure Rob would have been more than willing to inform that this level of management was totally unsuitable in regard to reptile status at Rushey Plain.

If an experienced surveyor doesn't look for herps in specific places where management is planned, hiding behind a lack of recent records is not really any excuse in my mind.

Lets hope the message gets across and please point them to this thread. For further advice if required.


Yet another example of mismanagement, but enough has been said so I'm not going to add anything more.

lack of recent records is pretty feable excuse and too often used as an excuse too.









Edited by sussexecology - 20 May 2012 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madfossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2012 at 9:32pm
Like i said before i am no apologist for CoL and this meeting took place BEFORE this came to light.

When i met up with them I was primarily concerned with Sunshine Plain and the possibility of CoL clearing the logs and brush piles (tidying it up).

Gemma your suggestion that a pre management survey took place is entirely correct, but i can hear the excuses already, lack of money, lack of staff, lack of records, and it is typical of current wildlife mismanagement especially in regard to reptiles.
Its fine to criticise from afar but we need to make sure that they cant hide behind excuses like lack of recent records, lack of manpower, lack of reptile conservation knowledge and make sure they are precisely  aware of their obligations under the SSSI status.
I dont have  enough in depth experience of how  SSSI status is maintained and what happens if obligations arent met, anyone any ideas????
Surely one of ARG's remits is to educate.
I for one will not give up and and just accept that this goes on then moan about it on here and say i told you so. 
All the moaning is not going to bring the reptiles/habitat back, is it? as unfortunate and heartbreaking as it is, preventing it from happening again is the top priority.
I know its frustrating but if there's a chance of educating anybody and saving some reptiles/amphibs i am happy to do it, but i need some constructive input from here 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madfossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2012 at 9:39pm
Oh and if anyone has any current of historical records for Essex/Epping Forest please pm me.

If anyone one wants my records let me know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madfossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2012 at 10:43pm
I'm just reading through this www.sssi.naturalengland.org.uk/special/sssi/images/EnforcementPolicyNotice.pdf http://bit.ly/LjMyw2

Thanks for the advice Gemma, will point them to this thread :)

Ian


Edited by Madfossa - 20 May 2012 at 10:43pm
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GemmaJF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2012 at 10:32am
I do not think it is up to us to educate to be honest and though I have been willing to, the next problem is that they will totally ignore the results of surveys and the advice of ARGs etc if it does not fit into their plans.

The public are not immune to the the Wildlife & Countryside Act.

Developers are not immune to the Wildlife & Countryside Act.

Consultants are not immune to the Wildlife & Countryside Act.



Apparently conservation organisations are.

What needs to be addressed is the double standard which is cultivated by Natural England, when they sanctions works or state they trust these organisations to know what they are doing.

If they cannot afford pre-management survey for protected species, then they simply cannot afford to carryout the project. Which is fine by me as it will mean that key habitat is not trashed. No rocket science, no excuses, they simply need to get their priorities sorted out.

There still remains only one clear way to address the issue. 

Prosecute under the Wildlife & Countryside act for unlawful killing of protected species. 

No more banging heads against walls, no more fire fighting, no more key people simply giving up out of frustration. No more acidic emails from conservation organisations telling someone with 30 years field experience that their methods are 'flawed'. In fact no more BS full stop.


This doesn't change the fact I would always be willing to advise those who want to listen. Unfortunately whilst doing so half a dozen or more sites will be trashed by those who are not willing or simply do not care. That is the key issue that needs to be addressed and the only way to do that is to make them listen by providing a serious consequence to those who choose not to.

Data request for Essex herp records may now be obtained through the Essex Field Club website at:



Edited by GemmaJF - 21 May 2012 at 10:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MancD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2012 at 1:07pm
Ian,
 
Citation information, activities requiring consent, the current status of the SSSI and views on management at Epping Forest can be found at this link. Hope it helps.
 
Duncan
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2012 at 1:22pm

Hi all,

 

oonnnlllyyyy meeee!

 

Ian, I don't think you're being naive, but I do think the guys responsible are thinking up any old speil to pull the wool over your eyes.

 

The facts are these:

 

1) unfortunately; we can say, let's not look back, what's done is done etc etc, but that just doesn't protect for the future I'm afraid.

 

2) I met the coordinator of conservation (CoL) over Sunshine Plain years ago and told him exactly where Adders, Grass Snakes, Toads, Frogs, Newts etc, were located (as have many others). I discussed at length the need to rotate cattle grazing in different areas, so that the Plains have at least two to three years to recover between each grazing.

 

3) I also asked that if major works were going to be undertaken, such as strimming, rolling, levelling, scraping, that could they please contact me first so that I could impart any local knowledge. I also mentioned to them the RAUK website so if they lost my contact details they could still let me know.

 

I told them (as well as telling the head Rangers) that even if they did not like the purple moor grass etc, it was essential to leave some until the new growth of Heather gave ground cover. They continue to destroy it. I let them have details of hibernaculaums on Sunshine Plain and asked for them to be protected during grazing - they answered by saying "there's no need for that, cattle don't trample piles of Bracken!!"

 

On the Long Running, the "Heather regrowth experiment" hasn't even risen over snail's height in 12 years since they blitzed it like they blitzed Rushey Plain.

 

Adders have declined to a point where there are no longer home range groups but merely scattered individuals. Although some of this may be down to theft, the “opening up” of Adder areas have contributed greatly.

 

Further; in a survey of the Deer sanctuary I let them have my findings and asked for an excavation of an existing ditch (not the most expensive job in the world) to allow for a migration corridor to the lake that exists to the forest beyond.

 

I asked for a twin fence to be erected on the Long Running of just 30 metres, again not expensive, and again to promote a corridor. No joy there either I'm afraid.

 

No, as much as I don't like negative posting, from past experience, they appear just not prepared to make adequate consideration, arrangements or sufficient resources to manage an SSSI to promote bio diversity.

 

They seem to lack the understanding needed to protect Herps, while at the same time, they do not wish to recognise enthusiasts as being people with important advice to heed.

 

It's as if they are too proud to ask. Either that, or as I said, Herps figure way down the list, and as Suzi said, they would rather have picnic tables.

 

Those Plains are also out-of-bounds to Riders and Mountain bikers. I have reported incidence of both and asked for more signs but alas, on deaf ears again.

 

We have to face it, you can meet with whoever you wish and talk until you are blue in the face, but without a high profile prosecution, in three, six, nine months, all will be forgotten and the Forest will decline further in terms of Herps.

 

Sorry to be such a pessimist.

 

UnhappyR
RobV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fynbos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2012 at 8:58pm
We should start an illustrated file of these 'comedy of errors'. Starting with mine way back when.
Then present it to ????
 
You would not believe how much cooperation and respect I get here in SA. We get the job done properly. A siginificant point always to make is that snakes are probably one of the most important vertebrate predators in an ecosystem - that surprises a lot of folk, and also impresses them.
I get mu kicks on route 62
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGILIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2012 at 6:54am
I would like to know how real much association and time have these people who do the tidying up had with Rushy and Sunshine plane,and surrounding areas with its herp life and other animals that are no longer to be seen, like our native deer that used to roam free and were rounded up and moved I believe to Hainualt forest many decades ago ? I started my herping life at least 54 years ago under the guidance of author and naturalist Fred Speakman who run a real natural centre that schoolies from London learnt about our wildlife he would turn in his grave at the funded heavy handed mismanagement and personal ideas of a landscaped forest . Keith

Edited by AGILIS - 22 May 2012 at 6:55am
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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