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The rough guide to reptile mitigation....

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sussexecology View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2011 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Scale Scale wrote:

Originally posted by GemmaJF GemmaJF wrote:

Just as a further note Natrix intercepts
can be very hit and miss as the population is often
transient, with luck though juveniles will? usually show
reasonably quickly if present.


Absolutely.

Would it not be useful (as previously suggested) to get
some up to date consultancy guidelines. From what i
gather many county ecologists still follow the Froglife
guidelines and veto ecological reports to that effect.

Fglf guidelines perhaps allow for too few refugia bedding
in days (as a minimum) and seem to neglect the months of
March and October as viable survey periods!

I've just had a look on some of the top google hit
consultancies' websites and their survey calenders
generally exclude March and October, running instead from
April to September?

I


Absolutely

agree about your comment re he consultancies that use the FrogLife Guidance. I've been reading some reptile reports from other consultancies and horrified to see that they are using this system. What i find annoying as well, is the ecologist who worked on the survey don't put any info on known records of reptiles. I think that there are some who don't even do a desktop study. I think that this is a prerequisite (if I can use that word) to obtain basic information about the area even before you even start putting refugia down.

Totally agree with Gemma's comments though re the ticking of boxes to ensure that reptiles are not present. Whoever undertakes a reptile survey should have enough experience to do the job and that includes knowing the right conditions and how to undertake an adequate survey in the first place. Maybe it is time that more training was made available to the consultancies concerned, but to do this would cost money and in our current financial climate, i don't think it would be a possible.

By the way, anyone seen any adders yet? I've started looking on a more casual basis, rather than for work but seen nothing yet. I also do reptile surveys for landowners and as part of NARRS because like you, I love reptiles. They are a challenging group of species to survey - which is probably why I love doing them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 9:54am
Funnily enough i have seen all the common species
(including grass snake at the hibernacula on 24th Feb)but
no adder yet (in Shropshire). Not, i should add, because
they are not out.

Based on previous survey work, the site i am looking at
appears to support few adders (possibly only summer
foraging)and there may or may not be any major
hibernaculum in my survey area. I am certainly looking
and have been for a few weeks now.

Other midland sites such as the Staffordshire Moorlands
and Cannock Chase have been been showing adders for up to
a month now, albeit close to the hibernaculum. I really
need to take a trip up to Whixall Moss which is our
county Adder mecca to have a more informed look.

Based on this I would imagine that Sussex adders should
be well and truely out and possibly starting to loosely
disperse, although i know not the area or the recent
weather conditions. Look at 'Active Topics' on this forum
for 'First herp sitings 2011' there is plenty on there to
digest.

As for the training courses, i know ARC (in conjunction
with the FSC) are running a few courses this year and
there are the IEEM courses too. Jon Cranfield (a.k.a.
Herpetologic) is involved in both so he may be the man to
ask, although i get the impression that you yourself are
not looking.

Happy hunting and if you are looking at potential
hibernation sites i would be doing it now, including
Grass Snake sites after this current cold snap. There
must be numerous surveyors on this forum working at your
latitude who would be better to advise.

Cheers
Rob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 12:39pm

Here in Essex we've only had maybe 3 days that would have been worth a look, though heavy frosts before the sun kept me from going out. (OK I went out but it's hard to see adder from 3000' in the air ).

The rest has been cool overcast. Tommorrow should be good before the warm front comes through bringing light rain for Sunday. I'm expecting a mix of post and pre-moult males around the hibernation areas, as scale has said we would be expecting dispersal by now but I've a feeling at my local site they won't have moved far as yet, still using the hibernaculum at night.

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Robert V View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2011 at 1:38pm

Just been out to Adders haunts, bloody freezing and just when you thought a gap in the clouds would brings some rays to the ground, the wind changes slightly and clouds swallow the sun again.

3 vivs, I'll post pics later.

R

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sussexecology View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sussexecology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2011 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Scale Scale wrote:

Funnily enough i have seen all the common species
(including grass snake at the hibernacula on 24th Feb)but
no adder yet (in Shropshire). Not, i should add, because
they are not out.

Based on previous survey work, the site i am looking at
appears to support few adders (possibly only summer
foraging)and there may or may not be any major
hibernaculum in my survey area. I am certainly looking
and have been for a few weeks now.

Other midland sites such as the Staffordshire Moorlands
and Cannock Chase have been been showing adders for up to
a month now, albeit close to the hibernaculum. I really
need to take a trip up to Whixall Moss which is our
county Adder mecca to have a more informed look.

Based on this I would imagine that Sussex adders should
be well and truely out and possibly starting to loosely
disperse, although i know not the area or the recent
weather conditions. Look at 'Active Topics' on this forum
for 'First herp sitings 2011' there is plenty on there to
digest.

As for the training courses, i know ARC (in conjunction
with the FSC) are running a few courses this year and
there are the IEEM courses too. Jon Cranfield (a.k.a.
Herpetologic) is involved in both so he may be the man to
ask, although i get the impression that you yourself are
not looking.

Happy hunting and if you are looking at potential
hibernation sites i would be doing it now, including
Grass Snake sites after this current cold snap. There
must be numerous surveyors on this forum working at your
latitude who would be better to advise.

Cheers
Rob



Thanks for this Rob.

To be honest, I haven't been looking yet because I've been a bit lazy! The day time temps are getting better and I am hoping to be out looking for hibernation sites in the next week or so.

I've come across toads and smooth newts at end of feb. The night time temps have been so up and down but it is getting milder at last!

No, I'm not looking for training but your are right about the IEEM courses - they are very good. I'm just a bit fed up with reading reports on sites that I'm taking over where the previous consultant has done a sub-standard survey. But that's life i guess!

Thanks for your comments though and I'm looking forward to doing some fieldwork again.
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Matt Harris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 9:58am
I may be flogging a dead horse but I do like to moan about survey reports where the consultant has done the minimum 7 survey visits mentioned in FAS10, but then use this for an estimate of relative population size, whereas as I see it this is the minimum for presence/absence only. Apart from FAS10, are there any other guidelines as to the minimum site visits required to estimate relative population size?

If you mention 20 survey visits (as stipulated in FAS 10 to estimate relative population size), they react like you've just slaughtered their first born...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 12:51pm
I think in some situations 7 visits would yield a peak count, depending on the species present. I would easily expect to get a peak count of Slow-worms at my two study sites after just minimal visits in optimum weather conditions. I can say this as i check both sites twice weekly throughout the active period, so i know the peak relative population count. I guess ultimately it depends on the experience of the surveyor. 

From what i have read on this forum 7 visits may not even be appropriate to determine the presence of some low density snake species.

For population estimates of Slow-worm a peak count may represent 5 - 10% of the actual population, according to the many experts on the forum (based on capture returns, which seems to be the definitive and only way to know). I have actually seen this figure applied to a site based on numbers found under natural site debris during a single site visit! That should keep you up tonight Thumbs Up 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Harris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 1:32pm
Thanks for the reply. I might be more relaxed for slow-worms but when it comes to grass snakes it would help me a lot if there were published guidelines to sath that 7 visits isn't enough for a relative population estimate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noodles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 2:31pm
I totally agree. I bet you get plenty of Adders over your way too, deserving of the same survey considerations. Until we get stricter guidance on population surveys the planning ecologists/authorities cannot enforce. I'm sure that there must be reams of capture returns throughout the country to improve the current system. NE carried out similar research for GCNs, its about time our reptiles got the same treatment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 6:57pm
There is a question that I'd like to ask all you guys with regard to mitigation and it is very straight forward and simple but very hard to deal with.
 
How can you accurately determine the presence or not of reptiles at a site if you can't lay tins?
 
If they are constantly moved / disturbed / stolen, what is the answer?
 
Thanks
RobV
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