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herpetologic2
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| Posted: 09 February 2007 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
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The only area where this may occur would be the Bournemouth Cliffs - I would like to go there this year (possibly a second field trip?)
though i am not convinced that they are actually the main cause of decline in the sand lizards - they may just be occupying an empty niche which the the sand lizard finds less optimal
Dave it would be good to see your data on sightings etc perhaps with details on habitat structure/availability etc
Regards
Jon
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Alex2
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| Posted: 09 February 2007 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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Interesting debate, and will say that a couple of years ago in Boscombe I did witness a PM snatch an insect from right under the nose of a LA. It made me think there and then that perhaps LA were not agile enough to compete with the faster PM's when it came to catching food. From my observations of the Worth colony, the PM seem to occupy an area right next to LV but only overlap in territory over a small patch of ground (or at least it appears that way currently).
Cheers, Alex.
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Davew
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Thanks for all the info. It was in no way a criticism of the original wording it's just that you can't be too careful in these days of "kill to conserve" something which I'm strongly opposed to. It all sounds very interesting and hopefully the ball will continue rolling. My data wouldn't really be of interest as I'm only in Dorset at most for two weeks of the year although I do spend most of that time herping and trying to beat my record of the six naturals in under 2 hours ten minutes. Yes I know someones bound to have had all six under one tin, still gives me something to aim for 
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Vicar
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OK I've done some wordsmithing (it certainly needed it!), and have added all reported colonies of which I am aware to the table.
I think we now have the most comprehensive available list of reported Pm colonies in the UK (maybe too comprehensive, but I'll wait for feedback).
I would expect Wall lizards to be appearing shortly (Feb), maybe after this cold snap. If anybody fancies a wander down to their local colony, and to report back here with photos, that would be great! 
If anybody can assist by determining sensible transects for their local colony, that would be very helpful indeed. I envisage online maps of transects...eventually.
Direct Link
BTW, there appears to be a report of TWO thriving populations on the Isle of Wight. Does anybody know if these are both at Ventnor? and if so, have they joined up ? (They are certainly present at both the eastern and western extents of the town).
Edited by Vicar on 09 February 2007 at 9:50pm
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herpetologic2
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Dave
All observations will be valid - so when transects are set up if anyone on their hols can walk a transect then this will be great.
I have some monitoring survey work this year on the Isle of Wight and I will be spending a couple of weeks in Cornwall so I can get down to both of these sites to get a few transects done over a number of days
Looking forward to this project getting some data
A report of this I would like to propose for the next Herp Workers Meeting in 2008
Jon
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herpetologic2
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PS did you get the BW article I sent through by email steve?
Jon
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Vicar
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Jon
I haven't received it !, maybe a size limitation on my inbox?. Many thanks for the attempt, David managed to send me a scanned copy, and I have added the additional data.
I also have a copy of Lever en route. John Newton has sent through some useful info too, so I'll update the page by tomorrow :P
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mikebrown
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I know the Wall Lizards in some of the colonies resemble Italian animals, and some are documented releases, but what proof is there that the other colonies, eg Portland, which I have seen myself, are not relict populations of native animals?
Cheers,
Mike
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herpetologic2
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There has been a few people looking into this - will Atkins from LEHART has also pondered this question - the distribution of the walls on Portland suggest a non native
the best way to do this is to carry out genetics - (though this would mean that animals would have to be killed)
A similar question is raised over the nativeness of the wall lizards found on Jersey aswell
so if we can find a student interested in lizards and genetics we could find a few answers to this
JC
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David Bird
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The Portland area had been looked at many times for unusual reptiles previous to the first sighting of Wall Lizard by herpetologists living in Dorset without any success. There had been odd reports for Sand Lizard in some of the quarries for several years. There were then a number of animals found in two localities seen and these were very obvious and I am sure would not have been missed by the previous recorders. I know I looked in several other quarries and coast path rock faces and would not have missed them having a lot of experience with the species in S.E.Europe. I agree that the population I have seen on the Eastern coastal path looks very similar to the North western French specimens and am sure that this was confirmed by one of the persons I believe is responsible for several of the introductions.
DNA work does not nesseccarily need the killing of the animal just a home office licence to remove the tip of the tails, these often fall off if the animal is caught by careless people anyway, I think there is also a method which takes a mouth swab which may not need a licence but DNA work is expensive and I personally do not think that looking at what is almost certainly an introduced colony is worth the effort.
From a conservation point of view I personally would like to see the animals removed where there is any chance of competition with the Sand Lizard such as the Poole Cliffs, a lot of work and money has been spent on the cliffs much with the Sand Lizard in mind which has been wasted by the illegal and irresponsible introduction as nice and interesting it is to see another species on our doorstep it is not what herpetological conservation should be about.
Dave
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Topic: Wall Lizard distribution in the UK
