grass snakes swimming in the sea?

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Hi all

Has anyone any records or sightings of grass snakes within large rivers or out at sea?
Another report of a grass snake from an Island around the Essex Coast leads me to suspect that grass snakes will venture from the mainland (off seawalls) onto these islands

any reports 
Jon

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herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: grass snakes swimming in the sea? Posted: 13 Jun 2006 at 5:48pm
	Hi all Has anyone any records or sightings of grass snakes within large rivers or out at sea? Another report of a grass snake from an Island around the Essex Coast leads me to suspect that grass snakes will venture from the mainland (off seawalls) onto these islands any reports Jon

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2006 at 12:02pm
	Caleb, the reference is from Smith, The British Amphibians and Reptiles "There is a record of a Ringed Snake caught in the Bay of Biscay many miles from the land, carried out, no doubt, on some river current. It was none the worse for its immersion in salt water" Seems Smith's preferred name for N.n never really caught on in the UK.

Alan Hyde Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1437	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alan Hyde Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2006 at 1:12pm
	I've just returned from Turkey where I caught a grassy swimming where the river meets the sea. A few more feet and he would've been in the briney Al
	O-> O+>

charlesm Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Location: Algeria Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote charlesm Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2006 at 1:25pm
	Hi all, this posting made me think of a new German field guide I bought recently ("Reptilien und Amphibien Europas" by Axel Kwet). In the chapter on the dice snake the author states "Can even be found in salt water in some areas (eg on the Bulgarian Black Sea coast), where it feeds on marine fish". Of the viperine snake he says that in Galicia it turns up "on small islands just off the Atlantic Coast." These species are so closely related to the grass snake I guess that if they can happily swim (and even feed!) in salt water, then, biologically at least,there's nothing to stop the grass snake doing the same. I know that Scottish adders frequently swim out to, or even between, small islands in the lochs, presumably in search of food or mates, although of course these lochs are freshwater.

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2006 at 3:21am
	Great, I suspect that snakes are swimming in the sea around the Essex Coast - both adder and grass snake. I am curious about grass snake sightings on a few of the islands around Peldon and Mersea Island - The county recorder can recall swimming in the creeks around Peldon when he was younger - he actually came face to face with a male adder! Other more recent reports of adders swimming past sailing boats in the River Crouch have also sparked my interest in this activity. Regards Jon

charlesm Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Location: Algeria Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote charlesm Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2006 at 5:01am
	That's quite a story Jon - much as I love adders I wouldn't necessarily want to come face to face with one while swimming! The stories I've heard concerning our Scottish adders have all been in freshwater lochs but I guess there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same in sea lochs or even off the coast. It's definitely an interesting phenomenon though. I wonder if your Essex grass snakes have learnt to exploit marine fish as a food resource like their Bulgarian cousins? The other question is, particularly in the case of adders, to what extent are the snakes just using the water to cool off on particularly hot days?

Suzi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote Suzi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2006 at 7:50am
	Somewhere here there is a thread about swimming adders. A nice pic taken by someone at Branscombe of one swimming in the edge of the sea and then them removing it to the back of the beach and hence escape back into the cliff undergrowth. Tony Phelps I think said that this behaviour can be linked to mating/territorial behaviour as they are known to seek out islands etc.- the pic I mention was for May.
	Suz

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2006 at 8:37am
	Hi Suzi, Jon has seen this one I think, but for anyone following this thread and interested in the adder in sea water it is at: http://www.herpetofauna.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=983& amp;PN=5

Peter Stafford Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote Peter Stafford Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2006 at 9:01am
	A collegue here at work was telling me recently about a small grass snake that she saw last summer on a beach near Minsmere. The snake (a hatchling or yearling by her estimate of size) was moving toward the sea and within a yard of the water's edge, though not actually in the sea. Peter

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2006 at 4:11pm
	Seems logical - did you manage to get any photos? - I have had reports of grass snake eggs in various places - old grassy tussocks, pamber grass (is that the correct spelling) in a garden. bottom of a horse stable etc Jon