the online meeting place for all who love our amphibians and reptiles
Home Page Live Forums Archived Forums Site Search Identify Record Donate Projects Links
Forum Home Forum Home > Website and Technical > Web forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Common lizards and cats.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Common lizards and cats.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Gale L View Drop Down
New Member
New Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2013
Location: Oxfordshire
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gale L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Common lizards and cats.
    Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 4:59pm
Our cats have, over the last week, brought us in about 10 live common lizards. I have been able to get them to give me the poor little creatures and I have been releasing them back into the field at the end of our close (we live in north oxfordshire near Bicester). I am concerned that they are too shocked to survive and wondered if there was anything we could do to facilitate there effective release. We have 3 "exotic" reptiles ( one python and 2 beardies) so are well used to handling reptiles but these seem so fragile and delicate! We have had the odd one or two brought in in previous years but nothing like E numbers this year. I guess the recent warm snap has bought them out in large numbers and I don't like not knowing enough to be able to make sure they return to the wild in as good condition as I can manage. Any advise gladly received.
Back to Top
will View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 1:10pm
Hi - sounds like you live in a lizard hotspot, which is not common for Oxfordshire.  So my first comment would be to let the Oxon ARG / BBOWT know about the presence of lizards and any other Record Centres, to make sure that the place where they are coming from is as safe from development as possible!  Although the threat to individual lizards from your cats is a real one, the threat from the bulldozers would be much greater...  Also if lizards are present are slowworms/grass snakes (assume not adder) there too?  Could be worth a closer look.

As far as the cats are concerned, apart from keeping them inside in lizard-friendly weather (which I guess will not be practical for you) there is little that can be done - bells may work to alert birds and mammals but I don't think lizards are particularly sensitive to bells and probably won't make the connection between a bell and the possibility of imminent death...

As the lizards aren't being killed outright (or so badly injured that they need to be euthanised) I would recommend putting them in a warm-ish and well ventilated box with some damp-ish moss for half an hour and then releasing them far away from the cats and in suitable cover in suitable weather conditions.

I guess what I am suggesting is that by helping to conserve the lizard habitat you will be reducing the deficit in the local lizard population which your cats are potentially causing.  A bit like carbon-offsetting but for cats instead...   I could advise you to enhance the habitat in your garden, but of course this is likely to result in more captures by the cats...

Cheers

Will
Back to Top
GemmaJF View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 4359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 1:58pm
A simple solution would to be to keep the cats indoors wouldn't it?

Back to Top
Kogia View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2012
Location: Herts / London
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kogia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2013 at 8:38am
Sadly keeping free-roaming cats and caring about wildlife do not go easily hand in hand, as Will said, bells (and I believe you need to put two on each cats collar, as they can learn to muffle one) do not work at all for reptiles and amphibians. If you really can't stop your cats roaming, you could try cat bibs.
 
It may also be kinder for your cats to keep them in anyway, have a quick google search for the amount of domestic cats that die on our roads every year. Keeping them in may at first seem mean, but I wouldn't let mine run that risk, my cat is never going to get hit by a car and I think its a very happy healthy cat, I also know for certain it's never killed a bird, frog or lizard.
 
I just read a report from the USA about domestic cats there being responsible for killing billions of birds a year collectively.
 
 
Back to Top
Iulia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Location: Near London
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iulia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2013 at 8:54pm
the free roaming v indoor cat is an endless debate isn't it? 

depending on where you live, many cats live long and happy healthy lives as free roaming outdoor cats.

I have a couple of neighbours who have indoor apartment cats, and they are out all day at work - and sorry but to me it seems wrong ... 

I think it is just one of those things everyone must decide for themselves. 

Gale - these last two years have been awful weather for reptiles - but its good you have a thriving population in the area. 

Lots of good advice here, and nice to have you on board 
Back to Top
Kogia View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2012
Location: Herts / London
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kogia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2013 at 7:24pm
The free-roaming vs indoor cat may be a never ending debate, but in terms of safety for the cat and which type offers greater responsible care for wildlife, the indoor cat definitely wins. As to which cats are happier, I'm not sure, I don't have evidence to present for either side and I certainly wouldn't assume that a cat that isn't put out to roam the streets is unhappy

As an owner of any pet, you take on the responsibility for that animal, I know I want mine to be safe and I know I don't want them to kill wildlife, so I take measures to avoid that.

In many places people think it cruel to keep dogs on leads, or inside houses, dogs should be free to roam in groups. I've met many dog walkers here in the UK who think it wrong to try and stop their dogs chasing wildlife, it is after all in their nature to do so just the same as it is with cats.

In areas where there are deer or ground nesting birds, I keep my dogs on leads, I have also trained them not to chase fledgling birds or try to 'play' with frogs. I also keep them on leads near busy roads for safety, are these restrictions on them also wrong?

Back to Top
Iulia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Location: Near London
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iulia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2013 at 8:06pm
there isn't a right or wrong in my opinion - endless shades of grey.

I think there is obvious cruelty to an animal - such as starving or beating.

It distresses me a great deal when I travel in Eastern Europe to see the numbers of dogs who are chained and penned in a small area in the yard to bark if anyone comes into the property. I think it is cruel as the animals have no stimulation and little space but I am looked on with bug-eyed mystification by the locals who cannot comprehend how an animal that is fed, watered and housed can be considered in any way ill-treated. 

I have neighbours who keep two large dogs and only let them run in the garden, they never seem to take them for walks. My friends who religiously walk their collies twice a day are horrified by this.

But the dogs appear as far as I can tell to be healthy, and happy as you say who knows? If they have never know different ....

Where does cruelty start? A tiger in a cage? A hamster in a cage? A python in a cage? 

I am personally uncomfortable with keeping a cat indoors but its my opinion only Smile 

Ethically it is very difficult. Where I live dogs regularly kill the deer and swans, and every so often there is the debate if all dogs should be kept on the lead all the time. The counter-argument is most dog owners are responsible and can control their dogs, so should they and their dogs be punished for the actions of a few? 

I just think very little is cut and dried
Back to Top
Kogia View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2012
Location: Herts / London
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kogia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2013 at 11:52pm
I'd definitely be with you on the shades of grey for many topics, I'm tiresome with how often I take the many sides point of debate. Sadly though, we assault our wildlife from so many angles now and there's just so many of us putting pressure on the life that is hanging on, that as a certain supermarket says 'every little helps'.

I sort of take less issue with the type of people whose dogs kill swans or deer, they all too often have the attitude of not caring about wildlife at all, it's unfortunate, but many people just don't see it as important. However I find it more strange with people who do care, yet still accept a certain amount of wildlife death from their pets as 'inevitable', especially as when know how much damage our pets can and do cause.

As a very fitting event to witness, today I heard a blackbird going crazy in our back garden. When I went out to have a look I watched our new neighbour's cat raiding the blackbirds nest in our other neighbour's garden. It is possible it may have also got to some other birds nests as a pair of dunnocks and a robin were all out there agitatedly bouncing up and down on the fence post watching it all for ages as well. I'd feel awful if I thought any of my pets killed bird chicks or wrecked nests.
Back to Top
GemmaJF View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 4359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GemmaJF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2013 at 12:39am
I have seen the effect of  'free roaming' cats directly.

We established a wildlife garden several years ago and attracted a huge range of birds, a good selection of small mammals and even 3 species of native reptile. It thrived until a new neighbour arrived with cats. We took down the bird table because it was such an easy target. Out of the three species of reptile I now only see a few common lizards, all with missing tails.

It has been quite devastating to be honest. We have pleaded with the neighbour not to let their cats out. They have a manicured lawn, we had a wildlife garden. Their cats choose to spend all their time in our garden not the neighbours and that is what I see as very inconsiderate of the owners. They do not provide suitable outdoor habitat for their cats themselves at all, yet think it perfectly reasonable to allow them out to hunt on our property.

Regarding it being cruel to keep cats indoors, no not at all, as an ex-veterinary nurse I can assure anyone that outdoor cats are far more likely to contract disease (parasitic and infection), be injured, often fatally, and be mistreated by humans than a cat that is kept safely indoors.

I mentioned not on this thread but on the forum how one of the neighbours cats was spread down the road by a passing car a few months ago. Within a week the neighbours purchased another 'replacement' I really don't have words for people who think like this.

Still all in all it is just one more pressure. Nobody listens to any of us regarding the threats to native wildlife in any case, not even those charged with protecting them, so I won't expect the general public to take much notice of the facts regarding cats.

At the end of the day for me the term 'free roaming cat' is now synonymous with 'my pet is not my problem, it is everyone else's problem'. Sad but very true in many cases.


Back to Top
Kogia View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2012
Location: Herts / London
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kogia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2013 at 11:01am
Really feel for you with your wildlife garden Gemma. It never ceases to amaze me that as a society that is very protective over our own little plots of land, we have decided that it's acceptable for somebody else to have a pet that is allowed to enter in and often impact our own private patch.

We have also carefully turned our tiny central London garden into a wildlife friendly scrap of land and it's very unfair that a neighbour could buy a pet that could ruin it, you must feel quite gutted.

When the frogs in our pond hop over into our neighbours garden and their dog eats them, there's not a lot I can do about that, it is happening on their property, but were that same dog to be entering into my garden to attack the birds we attract, or the frogs & toads in our pond, then nobody would think me odd for taking umbrage. So far I've not noticed this new cat entering our garden and because of high fencing and a strategically placed holly bush, it may not be able to get in, I'll keep my fingers crossed it's not sneaking in at night.

Edited by Kogia - 14 May 2013 at 11:02am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.06
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.