Adder monitoring methods

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   Hey people. I'm relatively new to this, and I could really do with some help and advice.
I may have the chance to become involved in an adder project that will involve determining the population size. So, capture-mark-release methods should, I beleive, be used. The question is, which?
I have heard a lot about about digital photographic recognition being used to monitor grass snakes. How applicable might this method be for adders? Are there any alternatives (scale clipping, paint...)
I also would like some information regarding Home Office licensing with respect to obtaining samples for genetic study (scales, swabs, blood) and for the surgical implantation of miniture radio transmitters.
Any help, even if its just to say that I'm crazy, would be appreciated.
J

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Pulmonata Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pulmonata Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Adder monitoring methods Posted: 07 Mar 2007 at 5:38am
	Hey people. I'm relatively new to this, and I could really do with some help and advice. I may have the chance to become involved in an adder project that will involve determining the population size. So, capture-mark-release methods should, I beleive, be used. The question is, which? I have heard a lot about about digital photographic recognition being used to monitor grass snakes. How applicable might this method be for adders? Are there any alternatives (scale clipping, paint...) I also would like some information regarding Home Office licensing with respect to obtaining samples for genetic study (scales, swabs, blood) and for the surgical implantation of miniture radio transmitters. Any help, even if its just to say that I'm crazy, would be appreciated. J

administrator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote administrator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Mar 2007 at 5:58am
	Your crazy. Na just kidding. You can get good photo ID using head scalation patterns. There is a thread on here about it but it follows the published work of Paul Benson (try a forum seach for Paul Benson). It is an easy method to implement and gives a quick method where a number code is formed so that you can sift through a great deal of photo ID records to find matches and therefore determine recaptures. It is amazing how individual adder head scales are, practically a finger print. Scale clipping is another method. If you can locate the hibernation site you will be able to get a fairly instant idea of population size. At many sites it is possible to intercept practically every male adder of the population. (though this is rather site dependent and you might be looking at numerous loci or dispersed hibernation) Home office stuff is outside my scope, though keep as informed regarding the project, I think a lot of members will be very interested. Hopefully TP will give you some guidance, no one knows more about studying adder than our Tony

herpetologic2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Coordinator Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1511	Post Options Post Reply Quote herpetologic2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Mar 2007 at 6:10pm
	Firstly you will not need to do any surgical procedures on adders in order to carry out your studies which is a good thing really as Home Office licensing can be a nightmare. Head markings and scale arrangements using digital cameras does away with any need to use scale clipping or other marking techniques which are invasive and carry dangers to the animals (I suppose). Radio tags can be attached externally rather than internally, Warren Cresswell is the person to talk to about that using surgical tape and other glues can be used to attached radio tags....more info from Warren at Cresswell associates. Start simple monitoring of adders during the spring taking photos of the basking animals and close up to their heads to show scales and markings - you will then learn to recognise individuals - Tony as Gemma says will be able to tell you more as will Sylvia Sheldon - both have been studying adders for a long while Jon
	Report your sightings to the Record Pool http://arguk.org/recording

Pulmonata Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pulmonata Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Mar 2007 at 4:47am
	yeah, its looking like we will stay away from implantation, but i dont want to lose the devices as they shed skin or if they just come loose after a few days. Its also looking like we will be using head photography as I'm only hearing positives about the method. We wont be using scale clipping for recognition as I dont see the point when we could achieve the same end with less invasive methods. Does anyone know anything about "microchipping"? Apparantly you can inject a tiny chip under the skin and so identify them by "scanning" them with a wand - even if they're underground. Although we wont use clipping for ID puposes, we may wish to remove a small scale sample or blood sample from the caudal vein, but this is a licensable practise without a doubt. I've been in touch with TP who has been extraordinarilly helpful, but i will appreciate any help from any one. Cheers guys
	Shake Your Snakey Maker!