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Adder Dispersal Distances

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calumma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2009 at 3:23pm
Steve - just got it!

At least we are thinking along the same lines

It may also be worth considering a Level 4 that incorporates more refined land classifications that
correspond to data available at local records centres. Take a look at the
Kent Landscape Information Service website
as an example of what I mean.
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2009 at 4:42pm
Actually the KLIS website doesn't look like it shows all of the different habitat
breakdowns. I believe more detailed information is available on their GIS - and I
aim to get a copy of this.

The following screenshot illustrates what we should be able to do once we
overlay estimated occupancy areas on top of the habitat data.



This example is based on individual adder records, but I aim to take a more
landscape level approach to the analysis.
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2009 at 5:00pm
Just for fun, here is a map illustrating occupied gcn ponds for Kent. Larger
circles this time represent 1 km radii and indicate waterbodies that have another
gcn record (any record, not just occupied pond) within 1 km. Small circles
represent more isolated records and are drawn with a radius of 500 m.



Bias in survey effort is a problem for any recording project and the above map
has a classic example. Spot the gcn ponds along the Tonbridge pipeline survey!

Looking at the large number of gaps in the low weald indicates that we still have
a long way to go with this species. That Tonbridge pipeline demonstrates what
the whole of the low weald should look like
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2009 at 9:26pm
I should also point out that there are nearly 2000 gcn records on the KRAG
db. However, several hundred of these are either terrestrial observations or
do not specify whether the observation was on land or in water. For the map
above, I was interested in plotting records that were confirmed as
originating in a waterbody. There would be quite a few more red dots if I
was less demanding !
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Caleb Caleb wrote:

An easy one is to use squared distance instead of distance for the comparison- doing square roots can take quite a long time, and you
don't need the exact distance until you've found the nearest neighbour.


Happy to suck eggs on things when it saves helps make the db more efficient

Using the squared distance is relatively straightforward to incorporate into my nearest neighbour script so I will updating things after work. One
issue that I have had is that I developed the routines for calculating distances for other purposes - listing records in order of distance from a point of
interest, whilst also providing a bearing.

However, it is fairly trivial to use a different field for the large scale nearest neighbour calculation and for that I can rely on the squared distance.

Just in case anybody else is trying to keep up with some of these more geeky discussions on calculating distance between two points, there is a really
excellent summary available here.

BTW apologies for the poor formating of the post. However, I seem to have problems retaining line break formatting and links when posting to the forum
from Safari. Not sure if this is a browser specific issue (I use Safari).

Edited by calumma
Lee Brady

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 1:53pm
Not yet addressed some of Vicar's points.

Originally posted by Vicar Vicar wrote:

Distribution is possible, dispersal...is going to have to be
pretty wooly imo. As you say, there will be sites where the animals cannot
disperse, due to habitat restrictions.


What I am suggesting is that we can use maximum likely dispersal as a
proxy for predicting distribution from confirmed locations. I completely
agree that the prediction is woolly. However, I am less concerned about
this at the moment, because it is a prediction that will become less
woolly as more records are collected.

In areas where animals cannot disperse we may expect less records. I am
therefore minded to use the count of nearest neighbour(s) as a proxy for
estimating the prevalence of dispersal barriers ('dispersal potential').

Of course, this all relies on a good data set. But I would hope that as
more records are collected the prediction would become more refined.
The estimate is also likely to be less woolly for species with larger
potential dispersal distances. The smaller the dispersal distance, the
more records that are needed to adequately identify distribution
boundaries.

Grass snake may have been an easier species to start with, but since
adders have such a well defined range in Kent they are perhaps a more
interesting target.


Originally posted by Vicar Vicar wrote:

How will you know that a 'summer' sighting is not from
an undetected hibernaculum area?


We wouldn't. However, a site with only summer sightings can be flagged
within the db for early spring survey work.

If I chose to use nearest neighbour as a proxy for dispersal potential, it
may not be necessary to control for season. Of course the beauty of a
relational database is that this information can still be stored and turned
on at some point when the dataset is considered sufficiently large.

Originally posted by Vicar Vicar wrote:

I think a useful goal would be to produce a very simple
Vb HSI, using only data that is already available at county level.


Yep. My aim is to correlate the predicted presence of a species in a
specified habitat type against (1) the area that that habitat covers across
the county (potential range) and (2) habitat within the polygons defined
by available records and maximum likely dispersal (predicted range).

Maximum likely dispersal is a variable that can be defined by species,
lifestage, observation date and dispersal potential.

Sorry, this all probably sounds horribly complicated to other folks reading
the thread! It isn't really - honest. Both Vicar and I are aiming to achieve
the same ends, the difference at the moment is in the methods that we
may use to estimate overall distribution.

Vicar, if I remember correctly you use a statistical routine to predict
presence based on nearest neighbour. As I understand it, your method
would involve dividing the area of interest into a number of blocks
(defined by 6 figure grid references?) and then predicting the likely
presence of each species in that block using statistical analysis of the
nearest neighbour dataset? Presumably you would then compare
predicted presence against HSI to further refine the occupancy estimate?
Or perhaps only run the calculation on those squares already flagged by
the HSI?

I guess what I am suggesting is to incorporate maximum likely dispersal
into the calculation as a way of helping to further refine the estimate.

A last comment - honest! We should also remember that presence of a
species on a site may well be a consequence of historical dispersal. Just
because a site is now isolated doesn't mean that is wasn't colonised at an
earlier time.
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vicar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by calumma calumma wrote:

Vicar, if I remember correctly you use a statistical routine to predict presence based on nearest neighbour. As I understand it, your method would involve dividing the area of interest into a number of blocks (defined by 6 figure grid references?) and then predicting the likely presence of each species in that block using statistical analysis of the nearest neighbour dataset?


Lee, yes....

Its a three-stage process:
  1. Generate a set of nearest neighbour distances between all sighting locations (for a given target e.g. species).
  2. Generate a probability distribution for the set.
  3. for any point (or grid) measure the distance from the nearest neighbour and use the value to look up the probability from 2.
It's important not to over-count areas which are better surveyed, so, when generating nearest neighbour distances it's best to use an area block (I use a hectare, but a 1km grid would be just as good). So... the 500 records for adder under the one tin that is checked daily only counts as one location, and doesn't bias the stats.
Steve Langham - Chairman    
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by calumma calumma wrote:

Using the squared distance is relatively straightforward
to incorporate into my nearest neighbour script so I will updating things
after work.


Have modified the relevant script and decreased processing time by 63% If I
cleaned up some other elements within the table I would probably see
further gains as well
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2009 at 9:38am
I suspect that since it may be difficult to obtain dispersal distance values
that have been quantitatively derived for all species, what I may do is use
interquartile nearest neighbour values for minimum and maximum likely
distribution (from each confirmed record).

To me, this smells better that just picking a number out of the air.

For interest, 75% (upper quartile) of Kent adder records are situated within
0.86 km of each other. This seems a reasonable figure to use for the upper
limit.

Steve, do you have any similar values for Surrey?

Edit: To clarify, the upper quartile is a reasonable figure to use for the distance
in which the majority of observations are likely to be encountered (what I
meant by upper limit). Nearest neighbour values in the upper quartile would
therefore represent the minimum distribution range. Hope this makes sense?


Edited by calumma
Lee Brady

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calumma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2009 at 11:37am
Originally posted by calumma calumma wrote:


For interest, 75% (upper quartile) of Kent adder records are situated within
0.86 km of each other. This seems a reasonable figure to use for the upper
limit.


And when I control for possibly spurious outliers by excluding unconfirmed
records, the value drops to 0.64 km. I'll post a graphic showing what this
looks like.
Lee Brady

Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant



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