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surely a mistake? |
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Noodles
Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Just having a bit of fun Chris, no harm intended
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Iowarth
Admin Group Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Status: Offline Points: 743 |
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I never doubted it. No harm done but it was probably wise to set the record straight before one of the myriad of trolls jumped in!!
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Chris Davis, Site Administrator
Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED) |
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kit
Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: cheshire Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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kit
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AGILIS
Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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Getting back to the discussion , Such as smooth snake sightings on Cambridgeshire footpaths etc haha, its unlikely that a herpetologist was the one to see it,Now if it was me or one of us who saw it ,and also some photographic proof,it might lead to a creditable sighting .But theres some people about who would illegally purloin a smooth snake and set up a scam for getting themselves famous for 15 minutes in the media! keith
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LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
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GemmaJF
Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 4359 |
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There are some very common misidentifications that crop up.
One being that slow-worms are 'smooth' and often mistaken as a 'snake' therefore they are 'smooth snakes'. The number of 'adder' records that describe a bright yellow collar never ceases to amaze me either. There are plenty of times I've submitted records in there hundreds, only to request a data search with my consultancy hat on to be informed there are no records or 1 record of a grass snake 30 years previously. The last time this happened I had surveyed the adjacent site the previous year generating over 150 records. Not sure of the solutions, one would be for us to work with local organisations and offer to verify records? I wonder how many GCN records relate to male smooth newts that have a crest too?
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Chris Monk
Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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Quite agree with you Gemma.
I would say that for 9 out of 10 reports of great crested newts in ponds I get I can usually verify that they are actually smooth newts. Managed to confirm GCN at one unlikely site this week when I was sent photos they had taken on a mobile phone. Many people can't tell the difference between a toad and a frog. I had to explain it to an engineer and a contractor dealing with a ground collapse at a country park this week. They found about 25 animals sheltering in the gap under some old concrete and called them all frogs - they were 2 frogs and 23 toads. Most people only seem to have heard of adders so get loads of them reported everywhere. I've got to inform someone later on tonight that the squashed snake on the road in Chesterfield is a grass snake not an adder like he thinks. Its only a few hundred metres away from a previous correspondent this year who has been avoiding a muck heap in her horse field for 3 years! She and her mother saw a snake on it 3 years ago and the RSPCA told them it was an adder. I sent them a photo of a grass snake and she confirmed that was what she saw originally and in subsequent years, so now she's not afraid any more. The police are another great one for telling people that a grass snake is an adder, I have had several of those reports in previous years. I do most of the work to update GCN records in Derbyshire so we do get them on a GIS layer that will flag them up if consultants apply to the Wildlife Trust or consult the county ecologist or the Peak Park ecologist. Similarly we have got the reptile records on a GIS layer now, though virtually all of them are the result of chasing up casual sighting reports and even when consultants do reptile surveys they usually don't find them. Says all you need to know about most consultancies - they advertise reptile surveys but have no-one with any experience of reptiles to do them. |
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Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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Caleb
Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 660 |
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'Lizard' reports very often turn out to be terrestrial newts, as well...
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Iowarth
Admin Group Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Status: Offline Points: 743 |
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From RAUK reports (using the report form), together with some of the ARC sources such as Sliding Scales and Add an Adder I can confirm that, where we can verify (or not!):- A high percentage of "unknown" are red frogs and toads and a small but significant percentage are hawk moth caterpillars. Many "Smooth Snakes" are Slowworms and many "Adders" are Grass Snakes or Slowworms. At least 30% of "lizards" are (not necessarily) terrestrial newts Around 50% of "Sand Lizards" are Viviparous Lizards. Most "Bullfrogs" and "Green Frog complex" sightings are Common Frogs And that's just the more common variations. It seems the majority of the general public have no idea about animals which to us are so distinct that it is difficult to understand why they don't know the difference. So far as getting records recorded appropriately this is an ongoing battle. Organisations such as ARC do so, but occasionally can't keep up with the volume. They are, however, trying to develop better co-ordination and relations with County Recorders and the like. In the meantime, County Recorders themselves are often working on a total voluntary basis and just can't keep up and, of course, in some cases are completely absent or if present appear to do nothing! Chris |
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Chris Davis, Site Administrator
Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED) |
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GemmaJF
Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 4359 |
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It is interesting Chris that with the RAUK form there is a clear link to the identification pages yet still there were often misidentifications with reasonably clear pictures.
I remember well the same common errors when I monitored the sighting reports and often wondered how hard it would be to simply click on the link and take a look through the ID pages before submitting a sighting. I know Steve worked on an interactive ID page for SARG a while back. Perhaps we should have a key system online so the animals key out rather than it being left to the public to apply a common name? (For example a doubtful flag could be raised for a 'smooth snake' in Essex - though I know of at least two verified smooth snake records outside the normal range that related to escaped pets!!) Just as a thought, how about the recording page putting up a picture of the selected species during the submission process? With a tick box to determine if the ID is correct. If not the page could jump to an ID key? Perhaps something I can look into developing. If anyone in Essex or nearby wants to link up with me to verify sightings sent in by the public please do let me know. (Appearing to be doing something) Edited by GemmaJF - 27 May 2011 at 2:38pm |
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Iowarth
Admin Group Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Status: Offline Points: 743 |
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Hi Gemma Interestingly, Steve and I had been talking about a "key-based" identification system and I see that Steve has gone ahead and developed one - and a pretty good job too (although I bet plenty will still get it wrong!!). I do have plans to improve our ID pages, they have been static for while as you know. Additionally, I now have the reporting pages on www.herpetofauna.org.uk and was planning to move the ID pages there. The rationale is twofold - firstly, I have unlimited capacity on that (Linux) server and can create a fair bit of space on the expensive and limited capacity Windows server by moving this, and secondly, as you also know, I'm far, far better at PHP/MySQL than I am at .ASP etc. I think your idea is extremely sound, and certainly something I can easily develop in PHP. It hardly seems fair after giving you the well deserved break from RAUK that you should have to develop something for it . Apart from this, the new reporting form is PHP based so, unless you have widened your skill set (which wouldn't surprise me at all mind you) it's down to me anyway!! All the best Chris |
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Chris Davis, Site Administrator
Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme (RETIRED) |
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