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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 12:01pm

Tim, I feel the only satisfactory solution to this dilemma is to take the animals into a captive environment and over winter them for release in the spring. A number of large consultancies  have facilities to do this. I was involved in a destructive search in November this year. The site had been previously cleared of reptiles using ACO's however any animals uncovered during topsoil removal immediately prior to exavation would have been moved to a captive environment for release in the spring. Fortunately no animals were actually left in the works area so we didn't need to use this option.

My fear of warming animals is that they are most likely to be disorientated by the capture and warming process and be most unpredictable. The chances of them finding a suitable hibernation spot before they succumbed to ambient conditions are not very high at all in my opinion, even if placed directly adjacent to a suitable feature.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 12:15pm

 

overwintering facilities eh? - Most people I work with wouldnt dream of taking this option, which to my mind is BAD PRACTISE...

I am only aware of one such consultancy which undertakes this throughout the winter months - keeps ya in work you see....and apparently 80% survival rate - the risk for 'disease' transmission may be greatly increased in these facilities 

Even so I suspect that many consultancies would not have the right facilities to take in animals which is a good thing  

I would say that a hibernation bank that mimics natural conditions on the release site would provide the best option - quick, lack of disturbance (if it is well protected from mammals etc) rather than keeping animals in vivis, buckets or other vessels

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JC

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 1:10pm

Perhaps Jon, though I think we would both agree that in any case it is preferable to avoid moving animals for mitigation purposes during the inactive season. 80% survival rate, is that better or worse than in the wild? One might suspect slightly better, though I appreciate your concerns regarding disease transmission. One assumes that good husbandry practice if followed and animals from isolated sites are segregated?

I certainly hope not to ever work with anyone who is prepared to move animals during hibernation to a pre-made outdoor bank and abandon them there after stuffing up the escape routes with grass, whilst assuming that they have provided the correct humidity and temperature range to ensure the animals winter survival!!!!  Not just BAD PRACTICE, personally I would regard this as cruelty.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herpetologic2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 6:18pm

 

Correct humidity, temperature range it is getting a bit involved isnt it - the escape routes are only blocked as a temporary measure during the inactive period so the animals are safe from predators and would be allowed to venture into cover when it starts to grow in the warmer part of the season.

The 80% survival rate has not been confirmed - I am not prepared to do this as part of my work though you have to take measures to ensure that any last remaining animal is looked after - either by taking into captivity or placing it in a hibernation bank - the same procedure but using different approaches

I am not prepared to move animals in the winter - the company I was referring to does - they do this as they seem to be 'yes' men for their clients the main aim to reduce standing time of machines. I have used hibernation areas for releasing animals which I find sometimes in October or November when the animals are cold and so need to stay that way - the shortest distance to a safe insulated from the weather and cold or temperature extremes would be within the confines of a hibernation bank.....

Granted research needs to look at whether these structures do provide a safe environment - I plan to put humidity and temperature data loggers in the next habitat I create - next year to see whether the conditions would be deterimental to reptiles

Tim still glad that the thread has been started and only from staff group enquiry

Still we are all glad that the Forum is back

JC

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2005 at 4:34am

"Correct humidity, temperature range it is getting a bit involved isnt it"

Not really if one reads the abandonment of animals act.. it is a requirement to ensure the animals have a reasonable chance of survival before you release them.

Leaving them in an outdoor bank there are too many unknowns, you simply don't know if the conditions are correct and the animals cannot be monitored. Too high a temperature and the animals may be active and burning-off vital fat researves, too low, well they may simply be totally inactive and freeze to death. Correct humidity, or at least the correct range of humidity is just as important. Then there is the issue of will they actually find their way out of the bank in the spring? As an example viviparous lizards can be found hibernating in very shallow ground scrapes, even under thin felt refugia.. very different from being placed in the depths of a bank.

It's just food for thought really, I don't really like the idea of taking wild animals in to captivity in any circumstances, certainly not to simply extend the season one might carry out mitigation works, which is a point I accept.

However, if faced with a small number of inactive animals that couldn't be relocated a very short distance from where they were disturbed and placed in similar conditions, I would most likely opt to place them in controlled conditions over the winter months for spring release at a receptor site. Either way I feel we are looking at the 'best of a bad job' and really should be avoiding moving animals as late as October/November in the first place.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timbadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2005 at 7:29am

Very interesting all.

Food for thought indeedy!

So really, it would be a misnomer to think that a gentle warming before release later in the year, and by this i wasnt really thinking this late, just towards the end of the season,  would assist the animal by giving it the capability for movement around the new area.

And i noticed that no-one hazarded a guese about how long an infividual retains warmth ! Im still kinda curiouse about that one.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jopedder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2005 at 10:08am

I know translocated watervoles are significalntly predated, but this is whilst they are setting up new territories, tunnels etc during the active season.

Have you found that reptiles translocated  into hibernation bunds are more susceptable to predation in new hibernation mounds then old ones? I would have though that the risk from predation would be greater where potential predators already know where the food source is, as the reptiles moved at this time will not be mobile and exposed to encounters with predators in the unfamiliar surroundings.

 

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